bbs.cis.nctu.edu.tw
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发信人: aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (行者), 信区: chinfost
标 题: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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聚珍夭折录
本文是想藉此板面向聚珍的购买者致歉。并对聚珍中文整合系统在台推广的过程做一记录
。
西元一九九零年,朱邦复先生的学生在大陆深圳完成了聚珍中文整合系统,聚珍系统
有视窗、文书、绘图、资料库、试算表、排版和通讯等七大功能,再加上内有可出六百万
中文的无级次放大字库,而总共只需一张磁片。当时它在大多数PC只有1MB MEMORY和MONO
DISPLAY时使用EMS和支援SUPER VGA。在大陆获得了很高的评价,台湾的京国电子得到了
这个消息,专程请朱先生回来发表,朱先生回台湾后震动了当时的资讯界,几场发表会都
是座无虚席,笔者参加了其中一场,当时是用286 执行排版功能,画面卷动十分流畅,有
目不暇己之感,再加上可开65536 个视窗的环境和其它强大的功能,若大的一个会场可说
是鸦雀无声。笔者印象最深刻的是列印时,朱先生一按ENTER,XP-11的雷射印表机就马上
开始转动,短短数秒一页文稿就出来了。对于当时常用PAGE MAKER和对中文软体不屑一顾
的笔者来说,好像看到了奇观。心中起了一股莫名的兴奋,似乎看到了中文软体业光明的
远景。
此时由于基隆一间庙宇的指示,朱先生把合作对象换成了国荣公司(详情请见智慧之
旅第三集)。当时台北市电脑公会的会长是侯清雄,他和苏亮先生造访朱先生多次,愿意
以公会的力会来推广聚珍和仓颉内码,希望能一举解决字不够的问题,朱先生也十分赞成
,但国荣董事长坚决反对。此时聚珍仍是BETA版,用户界面尚待改进。BUG 也比比皆是,
朱先生交代国荣要先送给学校做测试后返回深圳,不料国荣急于上市谋利。朱先生此时已
回到了深圳,想先公开聚珍模组供业界和学界共同发展下一代的中文软体,无暇他顾,知
道消息后木已成舟。不幸的是大陆的合伙人见钱眼开,开始搞权力斗争,朱先生在大权旁
落后只好袖手旁观。笔者于九一年春节时到达深圳,开工后朱先生就辞了总经理的职位。
全公司士气涣散,工作情绪低落。聚珍模组程式和文件都准备好七成了,但形同停工。经
过了几个月的折腾,朱先生终于弃守大陆,转进台湾。回台后他要求国荣让他雇用五到十
名工程师继续研发聚珍,国荣答覆是:你先赚点钱再说。朱先生在赚了二百万元后,国荣
就请了几位高职工读生,每月只付六、七千元。半年后朱先生知事不可为,离开了国荣,
聚珍就此宣告死亡。
最近有网友发信给我,嘲笑聚珍的失败,聚珍的失败不是朱邦复先生个人的损失,是整个
中文软体业的损失。当时朱先生劝倚天合作对抗微软,倚天不愿意。数月后微软推出CWIN
长趋直入台湾市场,近年来打的倚天节节败退,往后若微软不再推出新的DOS 版本,今日
的国乔可能就是明日的倚天。
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发信人: ajax1.bbs@bbs.cis (ajax), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==>: aaawang@cis_nctu(行者) 在 Chinfost 讨论区中提到:
> 中文软体业的损失。当时朱先生劝倚天合作对抗微软,倚天不愿意。数月后微软推出
> CWIN 长趋直入台湾市场,近年来打的倚天节节败退,往后若微软不再推出新的 DOS
> 版本,今日的国乔可能就是明日的倚天。
^^^^
好奇而已, 国乔在整篇文章中都未提及, 是笔误亦或另有所指.
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发信人: Purkinje.bbs@bbs.cis (Eye Tracker), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==>: ajax1@cis_nctu(ajax) 在 Chinfost 讨论区中提到:
> > 的国乔可能就是明日的倚天。
> ^^^^
> 好奇而已, 国乔在整篇文章中都未提及, 是笔误亦或另有所指.
他是说,当年国乔雄霸中文系统市场,后来被倚天打败。依此类推,倚天
也将被微软打败。这个类比是这样的(将收入1996 GRE考题):
国乔:倚天=倚天:微软
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发信人: aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (行者), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==>: ajax1@cis_nctu(ajax) 在 Chinfost 讨论区中提到:
> > 的国乔可能就是明日的倚天。
> ^^^^
> 好奇而已, 国乔在整篇文章中都未提及, 是笔误亦或另有所指.
国乔的人看到你的问题一定很伤心.倚天是后起之秀,早期的中文市场国乔的占有
率超过倚天甚多.今天国乔中文不知道还有多少人在用.
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发信人: rux@bar (亦驴), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==> aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (行者) 提到:
: 国乔的人看到你的问题一定很伤心.倚天是后起之秀,早期的中文市场国乔的占有
: 率超过倚天甚多.今天国乔中文不知道还有多少人在用.
据说(资讯传真)国乔会被倚天后来居上,是因国乔中文有保护措施;
而倚天没有保护,而且有一阵子还有“自己拷贝,一份版权十元”的推销
手段。
另外,行者说“现在的国乔,就是将来的倚天”其实已经应验了。二月
六日的资讯传真,封面便是一艘名为倚天的船正在向“力捷集团”求救,
而一个“CWin”的蛙人正拿着钻孔机”在船底挖洞。(笑不出来)
内文的大意是:中文微软视窗吃尽倚天的市场,倚天发生财务危机。正
在寻求力捷集团(Umax)的资金及管理技术来重整营运方向。
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发信人: CrystalWu@bar (sda), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==> u801629@Oz.nthu (谢孟叡) 提到:
: Ming-Yen Hsu (myhsu@db.csie.ncu.edu.tw) wrote:
: : 谢孟叡 (u801629@Oz.nthu.edu.tw) wrote:
: : 现在国乔中文好像可以免费取得, 然后大陆跑 Windows 可能又不多....
: : 猜测而己 :-)
: 听说是因为国乔可以处理简体字和繁体字的样子
以我的经验
国乔比倚天好用及方便
特别当你有两台印表机时
另外
几乎所有的参数值都可藉kcp线上修改
不过要享受他的好处
还是买一套吧
我从5.00路升级过来
在那个只有中文卡才能run 24 字形的时代
我的国乔就跑24跑得不亦乐乎
只是
市场的胜利者未必是花最多心血在产品上的
还记得那个自称是“好朋友“的中文系统吗
一直把碟板用户当次要用户 把卡板当摇钱树 不愿让大家平价享用高显示品质?
中文系统
在震汉及国乔相继有碟板24中文后一年
终于也不得向时代低头
唉!
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发信人: Rollaned.bbs@bbs.ee.nthu. (WhattheHell), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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==> 在 CrystalWu.bbs@vlsi1.iie.ncku (sda) 的文章中提到:
: 还记得那个自称是“好朋友“的中文系统吗
: 一直把碟板用户当次要用户 把卡板当摇钱树 不愿让大家平价享用高显示品质?
: 中文系统
: 在震汉及国乔相继有碟板24中文后一年
: 终于也不得向时代低头
倚天应得这样的下场的, 三年前我就猜倚天要垮, 现在果然没错
为什么会这样呢 ? 因为不长进嘛, 当年有这么好的实力与机会发展
属于我们自己文化的整合性桌上环境它不做, 只喜欢赚钱, 现在外国
的势力挟着领先的技术攻入台湾, 散成散沙般的台湾软体业只能做
哈巴狗向着外国主子摇尾巴, 感叹...
这个行业讲求的是快速的市场占有率, 我们的先机已失, 恐怕将来
已经没有翻身的机会了, 你说政府有在辅导, 我看那是分食大饼而已,
钱分完了, 依旧做不出啥东西的. 我跟资策会的工程师聊天时了解他们
很闲的啦 ! 有事的时候就是帮外国的产品做中文化, 做广告, 做推广,
做谘询, 就是这样而已. 像民间的软体业那就更不用讲了, 在商言商,
唯利是图嘛 !
也许现在我只能寄望朱老先生了, 我觉得只有他才有远大的眼光.
不知道我以后要干嘛? 写程式 ? 做管理 ? 好像都已经失去乐趣了,
为什么失去乐趣 ? 因为我只能做外国主子归类规范下的东东, 不然
我连吃饱都成问题了呢 ! 呵呵... 现在是不是该先学学做哈巴狗的
姿势呢 ? 大笑三声啦 !
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发信人: jtain.bbs@aidebbs (无所不能), 信区: chinfost
标 题: Re: 谨向聚珍的购买者致歉
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WhattheHell (Rollaned.bbs@bbs.ee.nthu.edu.tw.) 提到:
: 倚天应得这样的下场的, 三年前我就猜倚天要垮, 现在果然没错
: 为什么会这样呢 ? 因为不长进嘛, 当年有这么好的实力与机会发展
: 属于我们自己文化的整合性桌上环境它不做, 只喜欢赚钱, 现在外国
: 的势力挟着领先的技术攻入台湾, 散成散沙般的台湾软体业只能做
: 哈巴狗向着外国主子摇尾巴, 感叹...
: 这个行业讲求的是快速的市场占有率, 我们的先机已失, 恐怕将来
: 已经没有翻身的机会了, 你说政府有在辅导, 我看那是分食大饼而已,
: 钱分完了, 依旧做不出啥东西的. 我跟资策会的工程师聊天时了解他们
: 很闲的啦 ! 有事的时候就是帮外国的产品做中文化, 做广告, 做推广,
: 做谘询, 就是这样而已. 像民间的软体业那就更不用讲了, 在商言商,
: 唯利是图嘛 !
: 也许现在我只能寄望朱老先生了, 我觉得只有他才有远大的眼光.
: 不知道我以后要干嘛? 写程式 ? 做管理 ? 好像都已经失去乐趣了,
: 为什么失去乐趣 ? 因为我只能做外国主子归类规范下的东东, 不然
: 我连吃饱都成问题了呢 ! 呵呵... 现在是不是该先学学做哈巴狗的
: 姿势呢 ? 大笑三声啦 !
当年没把倚天拉下来是一大憾事, 至于倚天在震汉之后迅速成长全公司人数
已达三百多人, 所以不怕出事, 公司大到一定程度再加上市场占有率及口碑
倒了也会有人收购或由银行出面, 要不就没有今天的宏碁, 他倒过四次...
至于朱先生我只能说他只适合研究发展,
应该是在某公家机构的研究单位在无业务压力下做开发,
研究结果则可如工研院般技术转移到民间公司,
如此他才不会把某些技术当作独占的要件。
bbs.cis.nctu.edu.tw
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From: aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (Xing Zhe), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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The Demise of Juzhen Chinese Integration System
This article is to apologize to the buyers of Juzhen through this forum and to record the process of promoting the Juzhen Chinese integration system in Taiwan.
In 1990, the students of Mr. Zhu Bangfu completed the Juzhen Chinese integration system in Shenzhen, Mainland China. The Juzhen system has seven major functions: window, document, drawing, database, spreadsheet, typesetting, and communication. Plus, it has a non-hierarchical scalable Chinese character font library that can output 6 million Chinese characters, all on just one floppy disk. At that time, when most PCs only had 1MB memory and mono display, it used EMS and supported SUPER VGA. It received high praise in Mainland China. Jingguo Electronics in Taiwan got the news and specially invited Mr. Zhu back to give a presentation. After Mr. Zhu returned to Taiwan, it shocked the information industry at that time. Several presentations were fully attended. I attended one of them. At that time, using a 286 to perform the typesetting function, the screen scrolling was very smooth, and I was dazzled. Plus, the environment that could open 65,536 windows and other powerful functions, the large conference hall was almost silent. What impressed me the most was when printing. When Mr. Zhu pressed ENTER, the XP-11 laser printer immediately started rotating, and a page of the document came out in just a few seconds. For me who often used PAGE MAKER and looked down on Chinese software at that time, it was like seeing a wonder. There was an inexplicable excitement in my heart, as if I saw a bright future for the Chinese software industry.
At this time, due to the instruction of a temple in Keelung, Mr. Zhu changed the cooperation object to Guorong Company (for details, see "The Journey of Wisdom" Volume 3). At that time, the president of the Taipei Computer Association was Hou Qingxiong, and he and Mr. Su Liang visited Mr. Zhu many times, willing to use the association's strength to promote Juzhen and Cangjie internal code, hoping to solve the character shortage problem at one stroke. Mr. Zhu also strongly agreed, but the president of Guorong firmly opposed it. At that time, Juzhen was still in BETA version, the user interface still needed improvement, and there were bugs everywhere. Mr. Zhu instructed Guorong to first send it to schools for testing and then return it to Shenzhen. Unexpectedly, Guorong was eager to go to market for profit. At that time, Mr. Zhu had returned to Shenzhen, wanting to first open up the Juzhen modules for the industry and academia to jointly develop the next generation of Chinese software, with no time for other things. When he learned the news, it was already done. Unfortunately, the partners in Mainland China became greedy for money and started power struggles. After Mr. Zhu lost major power, he could only stand by and watch. I arrived in Shenzhen during the Spring Festival in 1991. After work started, Mr. Zhu resigned from the position of general manager. The whole company was dispirited, and work morale was low. The Juzhen module programs and documents were 70% ready, but it was like a standstill. After several months of tossing, Mr. Zhu finally gave up Mainland China and moved to Taiwan. After returning to Taiwan, he asked Guorong to let him hire five to ten engineers to continue developing Juzhen. Guorong replied: "You earn some money first." After Mr. Zhu earned 2 million yuan, Guorong hired a few high school student workers, paying only six or seven thousand yuan per month. Half a year later, Mr. Zhu knew it was impossible to do anything, left Guorong, and Juzhen was thus declared dead.
Recently, a netizen sent me a letter, mocking the failure of Juzhen. The failure of Juzhen is not a personal loss for Mr. Zhu Bangfu, but a loss for the entire Chinese software industry. At that time, Mr. Zhu advised Yitian to cooperate to fight against Microsoft, but Yitian was not willing. A few months later, Microsoft launched CWIN and entered the Taiwan market in a big way. In recent years, Yitian has been losing ground steadily. In the future, if Microsoft no longer launches new DOS versions, today's Guoqiao may be tomorrow's Yitian.
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From: ajax1.bbs@bbs.cis (Ajax), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==>: aaawang@cis_nctu(Xing Zhe) mentioned in Chinfost:
> The loss of the Chinese software industry. At that time, Mr. Zhu advised Yitian to cooperate to fight against Microsoft, but Yitian was not willing. A few months later, Microsoft launched CWIN and entered the Taiwan market in a big way. In recent years, Yitian has been losing ground steadily. In the future, if Microsoft no longer launches new DOS versions, today's Guoqiao may be tomorrow's Yitian.
^^^^
Just curious, Guoqiao is not mentioned throughout the article. Is it a typo or something else?
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From: Purkinje.bbs@bbs.cis (Eye Tracker), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==>: ajax1@cis_nctu(Ajax) mentioned in Chinfost:
> > today's Guoqiao may be tomorrow's Yitian.
> ^^^^
> Just curious, Guoqiao is not mentioned throughout the article. Is it a typo or something else?
He means that back then Guoqiao dominated the Chinese system market, and later was defeated by Yitian. By analogy, Yitian will also be defeated by Microsoft. This analogy is like (incorporated into 1996 GRE questions):
Guoqiao : Yitian = Yitian : Microsoft
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From: aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (Xing Zhe), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==>: ajax1@cis_nctu(Ajax) mentioned in Chinfost:
> > today's Guoqiao may be tomorrow's Yitian.
> ^^^^
> Just curious, Guoqiao is not mentioned throughout the article. Is it a typo or something else?
People from Guoqiao must be very sad when they see your question. Yitian is a latecomer. In the early Chinese market, Guoqiao's market share was much higher than Yitian's. I don't know how many people are still using Guoqiao Chinese today.
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From: rux@bar (Yi Lv), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==> aaawang.bbs@bbs.cis (Xing Zhe) mentioned:
: People from Guoqiao must be very sad when they see your question. Yitian is a latecomer. In the early Chinese market, Guoqiao's market share was much higher than Yitian's. I don't know how many people are still using Guoqiao Chinese today.
It is said (Information Fax) that Guoqiao was overtaken by Yitian later because Guoqiao Chinese had protection measures; while Yitian did not have protection, and for a while there was also the sales method of "copy yourself, ten yuan per copy".
Also, Xing Zhe said "Today's Guoqiao is tomorrow's Yitian" has actually come true. On February 6, Information Fax had a cover with a ship named Yitian asking for help from the Lijie Group, and a "CWin" diver was drilling holes in the ship's bottom. (Not funny)
The general meaning of the content is: Chinese Microsoft Windows has eaten up Yitian's market, and Yitian is in financial crisis. It is seeking the funds and management technology of the Lijie Group (Umax) to reorganize its operation direction.
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From: CrystalWu@bar (SDA), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==> u801629@Oz.nthu (Xie Mengrui) mentioned:
: Ming-Yen Hsu (myhsu@db.csie.ncu.edu.tw) wrote:
: : Xie Mengrui (u801629@Oz.nthu.edu.tw) wrote:
: : Today Guoqiao Chinese seems to be obtainable for free, and there are not many people running Windows in Mainland China....
: : Just a guess :-)
: Heard that it's because Guoqiao can handle both simplified and traditional Chinese characters.
In my experience
Guoqiao is more useful and convenient than Yitian
Especially when you have two printers
Also
Almost all parameter values can be modified online via kcp
But to enjoy its benefits
Still buy a set
I upgraded from version 5.00
In the era when only Chinese cards could run 24-character fonts
My Guoqiao ran 24 characters happily
However
The market winner is not necessarily the one who put the most effort into the product
Remember that Chinese system called "Good Friend"?
Always treated disk board users as secondary users, treated card boards as money trees, and didn't want everyone to enjoy high display quality at a low price?
Chinese systems
One year after Zhenhan and Guoqiao successively had 24-character disk boards
Finally had to bow to the times
Alas!
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From: Rollaned.bbs@bbs.ee.nthu. (WhattheHell), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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==> In the article by CrystalWu.bbs@vlsi1.iie.ncku (SDA):
: Remember that Chinese system called "Good Friend"?
: Always treated disk board users as secondary users, treated card boards as money trees, and didn't want everyone to enjoy high display quality at a low price?
: Chinese systems
: One year after Zhenhan and Guoqiao successively had 24-character disk boards
: Finally had to bow to the times
Yitian deserved such an end. I guessed three years ago that Yitian would collapse, and now it's indeed the case
Why is this? Because it didn't make progress. Back then, it had such good strength and opportunity to develop an integrated desktop environment belonging to our own culture, but it didn't do it, only liked making money. Now foreign forces have invaded Taiwan with leading technology, and the fragmented Taiwan software industry can only act like a lackey wagging its tail at foreign masters. Sigh...
This industry requires rapid market share. We have lost the first-mover advantage, and I'm afraid there will be no chance to turn around in the future. You said the government is assisting, but I think it's just dividing the pie. When the money is divided, nothing useful is still made. When I chatted with engineers from ITRI, I found they are very idle! When there is work, it's just localizing foreign products, doing advertising, promotion, and consulting, that's all. As for private software companies, needless to say, in business, they are only after profit!
Maybe now I can only pin my hopes on Mr. Zhu. I think only he has far-sighted vision. I don't know what I will do in the future? Write programs? Do management? It seems I have lost interest. Why have I lost interest? Because I can only do things classified and regulated by foreign masters, otherwise I can't even eat! Hehe... Should I learn the posture of a lackey now? Laugh three times!
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From: jtain.bbs@aidebbs (All-Powerful), Forum: chinfost
Subject: Re: Apologies to Buyers of Juzhen
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WhattheHell (Rollaned.bbs@bbs.ee.nthu.edu.tw.) mentioned:
: Yitian deserved such an end. I guessed three years ago that Yitian would collapse, and now it's indeed the case
: Why is this? Because it didn't make progress. Back then, it had such good strength and opportunity to develop an integrated desktop environment belonging to our own culture, but it didn't do it, only liked making money. Now foreign forces have invaded Taiwan with leading technology, and the fragmented Taiwan software industry can only act like a lackey wagging its tail at foreign masters. Sigh...
: This industry requires rapid market share. We have lost the first-mover advantage, and I'm afraid there will be no chance to turn around in the future. You said the government is assisting, but I think it's just dividing the pie. When the money is divided, nothing useful is still made. When I chatted with engineers from ITRI, I found they are very idle! When there is work, it's just localizing foreign products, doing advertising, promotion, and consulting, that's all. As for private software companies, needless to say, in business, they are only after profit!
: Maybe now I can only pin my hopes on Mr. Zhu. I think only he has far-sighted vision. I don't know what I will do in the future? Write programs? Do management? It seems I have lost interest. Why have I lost interest? Because I can only do things classified and regulated by foreign masters, otherwise I can't even eat! Hehe... Should I learn the posture of a lackey now? Laugh three times!
It was a great pity that Yitian wasn't brought down back then. As for Yitian, after Zhenhan, the company's total number of employees reached more than 300, so it wasn't afraid of having problems. When a company is large enough, plus market share and reputation, even if it falls, someone will acquire it or the bank will come forward. Otherwise, there wouldn't be Acer today. It has fallen four times... As for Mr. Zhu, I can only say he is only suitable for research and development,
He should be in a research unit of a public institution without business pressure for development,
The research results can be transferred to private companies like ITRI's technology transfer,
In this way, he won't treat certain technologies as exclusive requirements.