China DOS Union

I had a discussion with WENGIER on QQ in the early hours this morning about the future development of China DOS Union. At WENGIER's request, I'm posting three important topics from it here, so that all members can take part in the discussion. I hope everyone can put forward some substantive opinions, and not just perfunctorily say you support it.

I declare here:
Those who don't come read this post are not being cool;
those who read it and don't reply are not being cool;
those who reply perfunctorily or with trash replies are also not being cool;

I ask every friend who has read this post to answer seriously. Thank you all for being cool enough.

1. About the boot disk

What kind of boot disk does everyone want China DOS Union to make? All kinds of boot disks in every possible style, each different from the next? Or one truly universal super boot disk that brings together the technical essence of China DOS Union and the hard work of all the experts? WENGIER and I both lean toward the latter. Our proposal is as follows:

Goal: to realize a super boot engine and a super DOS platform, integrating booting, maintenance, networking, and multimedia learning into one. To create a universal boot disk for a GUI super DOS system platform that truly combines the strengths of various DOS systems into one.
Specific projects:
1. Super boot engine project
2. GUI interface program project
3. Chinese character support system and software Chinese-localization project
4. Generic hardware driver project
5. Multimedia project
6. LAN and Internet project
Please give your opinions on the type of boot disk, or your views on the above projects, and say which project you plan to participate in. We hope enthusiastic members will also take part in the actual implementation of the projects. Everyone can also talk about the most ideal boot disk, projects, and project leaders in your mind.

2. About publishing a DOS book and a CDU first anniversary commemorative CD:
1. Do you think we should publish a book and a first anniversary commemorative CD? Should we charge a certain fee as funding for China DOS Union?
2. If so, how exactly should it be carried out (every friend can put forward ideas)?
3. How should the book and CD be distributed? Should the CD be burned, handled through pirates, or officially distributed together with the book? It would be best if friends who know this area could offer some practical and solid suggestions.
4. How many people would need the book and CD? Would they be welcomed by everyone? Please have every member help do some investigation.

3. About the future focus of the DOS Union:

WENGIER and I are not fully in agreement on this for the time being, so I'll just post the relevant QQ chat record here.

2003-07-14 00:32:36 Yiyesong
What have you been busy doing lately?

2003-07-14 01:31:43 Wengier
Researching MiniWin95B

2003-07-14 00:35:53 Yiyesong
I don't think it has much practical meaning. What's the point of making so many MINI boot disks? How many people are using WIN95 now anyway?

2003-07-14 01:35:22 Wengier
Win95B actually can't run on my computer either (it has compatibility problems itself). Recently I'm preparing to make MiniWin98SE.

2003-07-14 00:39:36 Yiyesong
I keep feeling that our forum still hasn't made any real breakthrough. Now it could almost be called the DOS Boot Disk Union. I think the main direction is wrong.

2003-07-14 01:39:16 Wengier
That makes sense. But how should we change it? After all, it seems the real experts still haven't come yet.

2003-07-14 00:44:00 Yiyesong
You've seen how posts have started to become saturated recently, right? There aren't any innovative posts anymore. There are a lot of posts that I don't even want to reply to after reading. It's all repetitive and low-level questions.

2003-07-14 01:44:01 Wengier
Exactly... I've had that feeling for a long time too. But I can't think of a good solution for the moment.

2003-07-14 00:48:21 Yiyesong
Start from programming. Even though our level still isn't good enough right now, we can take it slowly. Start with the simple things. For now let the boot disk section keep holding things up. But don't put the main energy into that anymore. The main energy should go into simple DOS software development, and we can also do some discussion of DOS programming. I don't think boot disk technology is going to make any further breakthroughs now.
Actually, you can see it yourself: your MINWIN32 isn't as popular as MSDOS71. To put it bluntly, users use boot disks to maintain systems.

2003-07-14 01:50:58 Wengier
But my msdos710 boot disk actually doesn't have that many system maintenance functions. After all, I didn't put many maintenance tools into it, just a small number of tools like BOOTPART and SRCTOOLS to pad it out a bit. What is really useful in the msdos710 boot disk is the other tools.

2003-07-14 00:56:53 Yiyesong
Hehe, they didn't use all of it as-is. They just used your boot techniques. Then they deleted the tools they didn't need and added the tools they did need. A lot of people do it that way. I don't think anyone is going to use CD-PLAY in a boot disk to listen to CDs.

2003-07-14 01:58:15 Wengier
Actually I wouldn't use CD-PLAY in a boot disk to listen to CDs either. I just thought it was very small and handy, and its functions were okay, so I included it.
Still, DOS boot techniques with the "China DOS Union"特色 are what really have value. As for what other software is in the boot disk, changing that is very easy. I think what matters is building a "super DOS platform".

The above are the three most important topics WENGIER and I discussed. I suggest making them one of the topics for this week's moderators' meeting. Since I can't get on MSN, I can't attend this week's moderators' meeting.

At the same time, I hope all members will participate in this work. Even if you can't do much, you can still put forward some good ideas and suggestions. I don't want to see any more painless nonsense like support, good, not bad, newbies are in luck, and so on.

When everyone is doing well, that's what really counts

These are all issues I had already raised, specifically as yiyesong described.. so I won't repeat them in detail...
But I want to stress one point: if developing DOS only means making a few boot disks, then it's meaningless..

Sorry, I left out one topic too. It's exactly what you just said. I'll add it right away.

Heh

Yeah.. actually making DOS boot disks is just one xx method.. the real thing is that building a super DOS platform is the important road for future development..

Actually, development has to come slowly; you can't rush it.... And development definitely requires funding, so I suggest taking the finished "super boot disk" to pirated software sellers and asking them to help sell it, with all the money earned used as funding for DOS development.

The view of our MBI investigation group is: first, don't limit things only to DOS boot disks; move in the direction of systems, and cover development, application, promotion, and support. Second, move toward semi-commercialization, because development needs funding, and only in this way can fresh blood be brought in. Third, make it so users can't do without DOS, make DOS inseparable from them; that requires making DOS have something attractive about it...

2. About publishing a DOS book and a CDU first anniversary commemorative CD:
1. Do you think we should publish a book and a first anniversary commemorative CD? Should we charge a certain fee as funding for China DOS Union?
2. If so, how exactly should it be carried out (every friend can put forward ideas)?
3. How should the book and CD be distributed? Should the CD be burned, handled through pirates, or officially distributed together with the book? It would be best if friends who know this area could offer some practical and solid suggestions.
4. How many people would need the book and CD? Would they be welcomed by everyone? Please have every member help do some investigation.


I agree with the above view,
we should publish a book, and it should be an official one,
with an official CD included,
sometimes we really do have to consider economic issues!
After all, it's easier to get things done when there's money!

Right now there is a publisher willing to have us write a DOS book, and it can be distributed together with a CD.. Everyone come and offer some suggestions..

I can't really come up with specific suggestions, but I think it should achieve this:
it should let beginners get started quickly, while also letting old hands gain something from it. It can be divided into several major sections, and each section should go from simple to advanced, with both text and illustrations. Add a CD to that, and it would be hard not to sell well!

Our CD definitely has to be made into
a bootable CD,
with multiple boot options!
And it also has to be able to autorun in windows,
this 700MB may not even be enough!

I think the reason WINDOWS OSes are popular is because
1. they use a large amount of GUI
2. in peripheral driver support and OS installation they are intelligent and automated, like WINDOWS XP
3. Chinese localization, many programs that localize English APs

So 1 and 2 require programming ability and need a long-term plan
3 can be carried out immediately, lowering user resistance, for example starting from usage or help

2003-07-14 01:50:58 Wengier
But my msdos710 boot disk doesn't really have that many system maintenance functions. After all, I didn't put many maintenance tools in it, just a small number of tools like BOOTPART and SRCTOOLS to pad it out a bit. The really useful parts of the msdos710 boot disk are the other tools.

2003-07-14 00:56:53 一叶松
Hehe, they didn't copy everything exactly, they just used your boot technique. Then they removed the tools they didn't need and added the ones they did need. A lot of people do it this way. I don't think anyone would use CD-PLAY on a boot disk to listen to CDs.

Writing it up probably wouldn't be that troublesome
and filling up a 700M CD should also be fairly easy
but the key parts still have to be typed out bit by bit, hehe

I've only been here for two days and already got my thinking turned around
The main purpose of this book is to let those still using 6.22 and 7.0
at least understand memory optimization techniques (the boot disk I originally made could also get 625k, but after changing the way I thought, it could get to 630k)

The CD can include software tools (Microsoft will beat people up if certain things are included) and IMG files of excellent boot disks
A packaged copy of the forum could also be put in it

I've only been using computers for a short time and my level is too poor, so please don't hurt my self-esteem, hehe~

1. About the boot disk
I don't quite agree with the goal. If it's a boot disk, then its main use is still rescuing a critical system, so multimedia and GUI aren't really necessary. (Of course, if it's CD booting, then adding them wouldn't be bad.)
1. Super boot engine project I don't understand what this means...
2. GUI interface program project If it's to make programs compatible with MiniWin, that's not bad. If it's for fancy effects, then you'd still have to use Seal or Qube. If it's for a floppy disk... then don't include it; a text+mouse setup similar to Wuyou Boot would be good.
3. Chinese character support system and software Chinese-localization project As for Chinese systems, I think Tianhui and Pocket Dragon are both pretty good. As for Chinese localization... a floppy disk could have two versions... ENG, CHS (what a waste~). A CD can combine both into one, with both placed on the CD, but not in the RamDriver or virtual A drive.
4. Generic hardware driver project Generic drivers for sound cards, network cards, and modems aren't easy to find, unless you really understand DOS programming and hardware yourself... so if it's a floppy boot disk then don't include them. For CD booting, lots and lots of different drivers can be placed on the CD, but not in the RamDriver or virtual A drive.
5. Multimedia project Forget it for floppy disks; for CD booting, add as much as possible if you can (solve the driver issue first).
6. LAN and Internet project Forget it for floppy disks too; there aren't many people using NE2000-compatible ones now. Once the drivers are in place, these are easy to solve...

2. About publishing a DOS book and a CDU first anniversary commemorative CD:
1. Do you think we should publish a book and a first anniversary commemorative CD? Should we charge a certain fee as funding for China DOS Union?
I don't know. I think the target buyers for the book can only be antique enthusiasts, or somewhat abnormal computer training classes (even our school doesn't use DOS in teaching anymore). The CD can be made into the above-mentioned boot disk, with more tools included, as a system emergency rescue disk...
2. If so, how exactly should it be carried out (every friend can put forward ideas)?
Don't know... I'm very dumb...
3. How should the book and CD be distributed? Should the CD be burned, handled through pirates, or officially distributed together with the book? It would be best if friends who know this area could offer some practical and solid suggestions.
The book can have two forms, electronic and paper... the electronic edition should be released much later than the paper one; if the CD is going to include copyrighted things, then better go through pirates, otherwise officially distribute it together with the book.
4. How many people would need the book and CD? Would they be welcomed by everyone? Please have every member help do some investigation.
As far as I know, most people around me can use DOS but don't like using DOS. That WinPE I burned the other day was actually snatched away by my classmates. That shows it's not that they dislike the command line, but that they've been "misled" by certain information... There should be fewer people who need the book; the CD may do a bit better. (Don't hold me responsible, I'm just talking nonsense~~)

3. About the future focus of the DOS Union:
It would be best to build our own DOS. Based on the FreeDOS source code, following ***, make a CNDOS... 32-bit... hehe.
Open source or not, whatever; if you want to make money to keep the site going, that's fine too...