Musings on FreeDOS (and Discussions on Reading and Writing NTFS Partitions Under DOS) - China DOS Union Forum

Chinese Chinese Chinese Chinese.
In fact, it's just Chinese. Nothing else.
This is not a problem of method, but a problem of the education we have received.
It's a problem of language habits.

Personally, I think FreeDOS is the limit of DOS~~~ But now PE is better, supporting Win32 IO

Originally posted by electronixtar at 2006-9-28 09:46 AM:
I personally think FreeDOS is the limit of DOS~~~ But now PE is better, supporting Win32 IO

The enhanced version of DR-DOS is actually very good, but its compatibility with old programs may not be as good as FreeDOS.

But its kernel already includes XMS memory management, and there is still room for improvement

The DOS I most want right now is the support for NTFS and Chinese long filenames.

Originally posted by wl00560 at 2006-9-29 12:00 PM:
The DOS I most want now is the support for NTFS and Chinese long filenames

Currently, there is no direct DOS that supports NTFS, but you can load an NTFS driver under DOS to access NTFS. The memory usage is not too large, and it has already supported Chinese long filenames! See the following boot disk, just boot directly:

http://help.cn-dos.net/soft/dosntfs.zip

站长，我刚才看了一下，启动盘中的内核好像是Win9x的吧？

Wait, I just took a look, and the kernel in the boot disk seems to be for Win9x?

Upstairs, the kernel is a commonly used DOS kernel on this site, no need for Win9x, and there are also differences. Moreover, the kernel used has no direct relation to the NTFS support discussed above. Currently, the key point is that the NTFS driver mentioned above can perfectly support Chinese long filenames on NTFS. You can see it after booting with the startup disk mentioned above.

Got it, then I can add the ifs driver to the DOS 7.10 boot disk I made myself! Thanks!

Originally posted by Wengier at 2006-9-29 05:03 PM:

Currently, there is no DOS that directly supports NTFS, but you can load an NTFS driver under DOS to access NTFS. The memory usage is not too large, and it has already supported Chinese long file names! See the following boot disk, � ...

Great! DOS can finally perfectly support NTFS!
Regarding the NDOS.EXE program in this boot disk, I have a few questions:
Is it a new version of IFS? Or is it modified from the original version? If it is a new version, where can I download the complete one?
What are the functions of xmsman.exe and cwsdpr0.exe in IFS? I did a test. If I use these two programs plus NDOS.EXE, I can successfully load the NTFS driver, but EMM386+NDOS or CWSDPMI+NDOS cannot. The former restarts automatically when loaded, and the latter cannot read the content of the NTFS partition normally, but HDPMI32+NDOS can. What is the reason for this?

This is in the new version of IFS. But the new version of the XMSMAN program seems to have a BUG. If loaded, almost all memory will be occupied, which is not as practical as the old version. CWSDPR0 is also a DPMI driver (a specialized version of CWSDPMI), but if it is paired with NDOS, the conventional memory it occupies will be very large, exceeding 130KB; in contrast, if HDPMI32 + NDOS is used, it only occupies a total of more than 40KB of conventional memory (or UMB memory), which is very practical. Unfortunately, there is still a small problem, that is, if you try to restart by pressing the Ctrl+Alt+Del key, you will find that you cannot hot-start normally. It is estimated that it may be caused by a certain BUG in HDPMI32. But overall, there will be much more free conventional memory.

DOS has taken another big step forward.

I wonder if you have such a situation. When loading with GRUB on a real machine, it freezes when reaching DOSLFN. When loading with a virtual floppy in VPC, it can reach the A:\ interface. Although there are HDPMI32 and NDOS in the batch file, the lh HDPMI32 and lh NDOS cannot be loaded automatically and need to be loaded manually. If you want to use Chinese, you need to load the Chinese system. But once you load TW, VPC automatically shuts down.

[ Last edited by weilong888 on 2006-10-2 at 02:09 ]

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 101,024 (99K) 9,536 (9K) 91,488 (89K)
HIMEM 1,120 (1K) 1,120 (1K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,320 (4K) 4,320 (4K) 0 (0K)
NDOS 72,192 (71K) 46,464 (45K) 25,728 (25K)
CTMOUSE 3,328 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,328 (3K)
COMMAND 7,424 (7K) 0 (0K) 7,424 (7K)
IFSHLP 3,968 (4K) 0 (0K) 3,968 (4K)
DOSKEY 3,968 (4K) 0 (0K) 3,968 (4K)
CWSDPR0 42,048 (41K) 0 (0K) 42,048 (41K)
Free 513,760 (502K) 500,656 (489K) 13,104 (13K)

Memory Type Total Used Free
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Conventional 549K 60K 489K
Upper 187K 174K 13K
Reserved 288K 288K 0K
Extended (XMS) 240,896K 238,604K 2,292K
---------------- -------- -------- --------
Total memory 241,920K 239,126K 2,794K

Is the webmaster using ifs 4.01? CWSDPR0 + NDOS occupy a lot of memory, and both can be completely loaded into UMB.
Please advise:
SYSTEM 101,024 (99K) 9,536 (9K) 91,488 (89K)
It occupies 91,488 (89K) of memory. How to configure to reduce its occupancy? If it occupies less, CWSDPR0 + NDOS will not occupy conventional memory.
NDOS -ver can display the version, but the webmaster mentioned that executing ndos -ver on that image file cannot display the version. It returns a prompt of no dimp. Pressing three hotkeys will cause an error.
The above Upper is 187K, which is occupied in Virtual PC. In VMware, Upper is 215K, and on a real computer with 845GL, it is 280K upper memory. But SYSTEM occupies a high amount of UMB. UMBPCI.SYS cannot be executed on many server chip sets. It cannot be used on 486, 586 and other old machines. When it can be used, it is very difficult to configure a lot of UMB, and compatibility is also very poor. It can only be used on a few motherboards. Its function is only to provide UMB in real mode.

[ Last edited by xugaohui on 2006-10-2 at 11:34 ]

ndos will search for the DPMI server. When you use that image, first load HDPMI32 and then run ndos -ver to see the version, which will show 401. HDPMI32 + ndos only occupies 46KB of memory, which is much smaller than CWSDPR0 + ndos anyway. SYSTEM normally only occupies more than 20KB of UMB memory, unless your DOS automatically loads DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE or something like that, or the FILES/BUFFERS values are set very large, then it will occupy so much UMB memory.

Find the latest version of HX DOS Extender in the forum
Download link: http://www.japheth.de/Download/hxrtd.zip
The file generation date is 10/01, and now it works normally when pressing three hotkeys.
The author's website's latest version still cannot press three hotkeys, and the file generation date is 09/31
The following are the test results in vmware:
hdpmi32 + ndos is fully loaded into umb, and the system occupies more umb than vpc.
Thank you, webmaster, for providing this very good solution.
In addition, I haven't tested the xcopy of HX DOS Extender. The xcopy in freedos can still be basically used. Test: When copying under a long filename sub-long filename directory, it will become 8.3 format, and the command line supports long filenames.

Floor1　e98156	Posted 2006-09-28 09:00
初级用户　Posts 15　Credits 40
Chinese Chinese Chinese Chinese. In fact, it's just Chinese. Nothing else. This is not a problem of method, but a problem of the education we have received. It's a problem of language habits.

Floor2　electronixtar	Posted 2006-09-28 09:46
铂金会员　Posts 2,672　Credits 7,493
Personally, I think FreeDOS is the limit of DOS~~~ But now PE is better, supporting Win32 IO

Floor3　johnsonlam	Posted 2006-09-28 22:07
银牌会员　Posts 497　Credits 1,410　From 九龍，香港
Originally posted by electronixtar at 2006-9-28 09:46 AM: I personally think FreeDOS is the limit of DOS~~~ But now PE is better, supporting Win32 IO The enhanced version of DR-DOS is actually very good, but its compatibility with old programs may not be as good as FreeDOS. But its kernel already includes XMS memory management, and there is still room for improvement

Floor4　wl00560	Posted 2006-09-29 12:00
银牌会员　Posts 709　Credits 1,384
The DOS I most want right now is the support for NTFS and Chinese long filenames.

Floor5　Wengier	Posted 2006-09-29 17:03
系统支持　Posts 10,521　Credits 27,736
Originally posted by wl00560 at 2006-9-29 12:00 PM: The DOS I most want now is the support for NTFS and Chinese long filenames Currently, there is no direct DOS that supports NTFS, but you can load an NTFS driver under DOS to access NTFS. The memory usage is not too large, and it has already supported Chinese long filenames! See the following boot disk, just boot directly: http://help.cn-dos.net/soft/dosntfs.zip

Floor6　tangtai	Posted 2006-09-29 21:52
等待验证用户　Posts 314　Credits 640
站长，我刚才看了一下，启动盘中的内核好像是Win9x的吧？ Wait, I just took a look, and the kernel in the boot disk seems to be for Win9x?

Floor7　Wengier	Posted 2006-09-29 23:51
系统支持　Posts 10,521　Credits 27,736
Upstairs, the kernel is a commonly used DOS kernel on this site, no need for Win9x, and there are also differences. Moreover, the kernel used has no direct relation to the NTFS support discussed above. Currently, the key point is that the NTFS driver mentioned above can perfectly support Chinese long filenames on NTFS. You can see it after booting with the startup disk mentioned above.

Floor8　tangtai	Posted 2006-09-30 00:57
等待验证用户　Posts 314　Credits 640
Got it, then I can add the ifs driver to the DOS 7.10 boot disk I made myself! Thanks!

Floor9　brglng	Posted 2006-10-01 07:40
银牌会员　Posts 466　Credits 1,200　From 上海
Originally posted by Wengier at 2006-9-29 05:03 PM: Currently, there is no DOS that directly supports NTFS, but you can load an NTFS driver under DOS to access NTFS. The memory usage is not too large, and it has already supported Chinese long file names! See the following boot disk, � ... Great! DOS can finally perfectly support NTFS! Regarding the NDOS.EXE program in this boot disk, I have a few questions: Is it a new version of IFS? Or is it modified from the original version? If it is a new version, where can I download the complete one? What are the functions of xmsman.exe and cwsdpr0.exe in IFS? I did a test. If I use these two programs plus NDOS.EXE, I can successfully load the NTFS driver, but EMM386+NDOS or CWSDPMI+NDOS cannot. The former restarts automatically when loaded, and the latter cannot read the content of the NTFS partition normally, but HDPMI32+NDOS can. What is the reason for this?

Floor10　Wengier	Posted 2006-10-01 13:22
系统支持　Posts 10,521　Credits 27,736
This is in the new version of IFS. But the new version of the XMSMAN program seems to have a BUG. If loaded, almost all memory will be occupied, which is not as practical as the old version. CWSDPR0 is also a DPMI driver (a specialized version of CWSDPMI), but if it is paired with NDOS, the conventional memory it occupies will be very large, exceeding 130KB; in contrast, if HDPMI32 + NDOS is used, it only occupies a total of more than 40KB of conventional memory (or UMB memory), which is very practical. Unfortunately, there is still a small problem, that is, if you try to restart by pressing the Ctrl+Alt+Del key, you will find that you cannot hot-start normally. It is estimated that it may be caused by a certain BUG in HDPMI32. But overall, there will be much more free conventional memory.

Floor11　weilong888	Posted 2006-10-01 21:51
银牌会员　Posts 548　Credits 1,270
DOS has taken another big step forward.

Floor12　weilong888	Posted 2006-10-02 01:50
银牌会员　Posts 548　Credits 1,270
I wonder if you have such a situation. When loading with GRUB on a real machine, it freezes when reaching DOSLFN. When loading with a virtual floppy in VPC, it can reach the A:\ interface. Although there are HDPMI32 and NDOS in the batch file, the lh HDPMI32 and lh NDOS cannot be loaded automatically and need to be loaded manually. If you want to use Chinese, you need to load the Chinese system. But once you load TW, VPC automatically shuts down. [ Last edited by weilong888 on 2006-10-2 at 02:09 ]

Floor13　xugaohui	Posted 2006-10-02 11:12
高级用户　Posts 293　Credits 774　From 湖北仙桃
Modules using memory below 1 MB: Name Total Conventional Upper Memory -------- ---------------- ---------------- ---------------- SYSTEM 101,024 (99K) 9,536 (9K) 91,488 (89K) HIMEM 1,120 (1K) 1,120 (1K) 0 (0K) EMM386 4,320 (4K) 4,320 (4K) 0 (0K) NDOS 72,192 (71K) 46,464 (45K) 25,728 (25K) CTMOUSE 3,328 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,328 (3K) COMMAND 7,424 (7K) 0 (0K) 7,424 (7K) IFSHLP 3,968 (4K) 0 (0K) 3,968 (4K) DOSKEY 3,968 (4K) 0 (0K) 3,968 (4K) CWSDPR0 42,048 (41K) 0 (0K) 42,048 (41K) Free 513,760 (502K) 500,656 (489K) 13,104 (13K) Memory Type Total Used Free ---------------- -------- -------- -------- Conventional 549K 60K 489K Upper 187K 174K 13K Reserved 288K 288K 0K Extended (XMS) 240,896K 238,604K 2,292K ---------------- -------- -------- -------- Total memory 241,920K 239,126K 2,794K Is the webmaster using ifs 4.01? CWSDPR0 + NDOS occupy a lot of memory, and both can be completely loaded into UMB. Please advise: SYSTEM 101,024 (99K) 9,536 (9K) 91,488 (89K) It occupies 91,488 (89K) of memory. How to configure to reduce its occupancy? If it occupies less, CWSDPR0 + NDOS will not occupy conventional memory. NDOS -ver can display the version, but the webmaster mentioned that executing ndos -ver on that image file cannot display the version. It returns a prompt of no dimp. Pressing three hotkeys will cause an error. The above Upper is 187K, which is occupied in Virtual PC. In VMware, Upper is 215K, and on a real computer with 845GL, it is 280K upper memory. But SYSTEM occupies a high amount of UMB. UMBPCI.SYS cannot be executed on many server chip sets. It cannot be used on 486, 586 and other old machines. When it can be used, it is very difficult to configure a lot of UMB, and compatibility is also very poor. It can only be used on a few motherboards. Its function is only to provide UMB in real mode. [ Last edited by xugaohui on 2006-10-2 at 11:34 ]

Floor14　Wengier	Posted 2006-10-02 21:35
系统支持　Posts 10,521　Credits 27,736
ndos will search for the DPMI server. When you use that image, first load HDPMI32 and then run ndos -ver to see the version, which will show 401. HDPMI32 + ndos only occupies 46KB of memory, which is much smaller than CWSDPR0 + ndos anyway. SYSTEM normally only occupies more than 20KB of UMB memory, unless your DOS automatically loads DBLSPACE/DRVSPACE or something like that, or the FILES/BUFFERS values are set very large, then it will occupy so much UMB memory.

Floor15　xugaohui	Posted 2006-10-02 22:59
高级用户　Posts 293　Credits 774　From 湖北仙桃
Find the latest version of HX DOS Extender in the forum Download link: http://www.japheth.de/Download/hxrtd.zip The file generation date is 10/01, and now it works normally when pressing three hotkeys. The author's website's latest version still cannot press three hotkeys, and the file generation date is 09/31 The following are the test results in vmware: hdpmi32 + ndos is fully loaded into umb, and the system occupies more umb than vpc. Thank you, webmaster, for providing this very good solution. In addition, I haven't tested the xcopy of HX DOS Extender. The xcopy in freedos can still be basically used. Test: When copying under a long filename sub-long filename directory, it will become 8.3 format, and the command line supports long filenames.