China DOS Union

Fine. Let's stop here.

Bill Gates

The following is quoted from yiyesong on 2003-6-1 16:36:54:
The reason the Kangxi era isn't as famous as the Han and Tang eras is not because of personal ability, but because of the changes of the times and of history. A person's lifespan is only a few decades, while a historical stage lasts hundreds or even thousands of years. China is an ancient civilization. By the time history developed to the Han and Tang periods, it was precisely the most prosperous era in Chinese history. That doesn't mean it was the achievement of some one emperor or some one dynasty, but the effort of several generations or even dozens of generations. Liu Bang, Emperor Wu of Han, Tang Taizong, Wu Zetian, and Tang Minghuang merely played especially prominent roles. But what was Japan like at that time? Where was the West, did it even have civilization? So naturally, in that era, the Chinese nation was the most outstanding nation. But as history developed, the West and Japan kept rising while China declined more and more. This is not the problem of one ruler or several rulers, but the natural law of development of the entire feudal society (as the times developed, the feudal system had already become the greatest obstacle to social progress). By the Ming dynasty, tiny wokou pirates were already stirring up trouble so badly that we could not live in peace. By the Qing dynasty, only in the Kangxi period was the only equal treaty with the Western powers signed. In my view, even if Li Shimin had been alive then, could he alone have turned the Qing dynasty into the Han-Tang era? The same applies if we use the present as an example. Can any one person immediately make our country as strong as America? Was it Mao Zedong or Deng Xiaoping? It still has to be done step by step over several generations or dozens of generations. And all the while you have to make sure no saboteur appears. Even so, reaching the glory of the Han and Tang periods would still be impossible.

Kangxi allowed foreigners to serve as officials, which shows he was not closed off at all. It's just that everything has its historical environment. Kangxi did make some mistakes, for example some literary inquisitions, but those cases were rare. It was only because he wanted to consolidate the Manchus' position; after all, as you said, the Manchus were not the legitimate orthodox Chinese line. It's just like Li Shimin killing his brother and younger brother and forcing his father to abdicate. There's no logic to it.

Kangxi's charisma influenced several generations. Among them, Qianlong especially admired this grandfather of his, and that is why there was the flourishing age of Kangxi and Qianlong. Frankly speaking, if not for Kangxi and Qianlong, feudal society might have ended in the early Qing period. It was Kangxi who let feudal society live another two hundred years.

As for the Taiwan issue, it should count as one of Kangxi's great achievements. Not only that, it is also the best point of reference for us now. Actually, our present situation is very similar to Kangxi's time, except they solved it and we still haven't. Hehe. ... I wonder what DD thinks of that.

By the way, about the TV drama Kangxi Dadi, it mainly evaluates Kangxi from the angle of the person. What it depicts more is Kangxi's inner psychological world when facing political struggles: unbearable pain when facing internal factional struggles, boundless joy when facing victory in war. What left the deepest impression on me was one line he said when he recovered Taiwan: “At this moment I feel how happy it is to be emperor.” On this point, it was mainly that Chen Daoming acted well. But the TV drama did not fully reflect Kangxi's great achievements.

One last thing: you have ethnic prejudice, and that's not good.

What teacher said is pretty much the same as what was said above too! I like it!!!

I didn't expect there would even be a female friend replying. Really didn't expect that.

But I can tell you this: what teachers say is the least trustworthy thing in the world. In state-run schools, teachers of politics and history can basically be counted as tools used by the ruling class to stupefy the people. This is the same in any country. Listening to them is the same as pouring shit into your own brain.

So the best teacher is yourself. Keep improving yourself through your own social practice and awareness. That is progress.

Li Xiaolong, well said, that's how I feel about teachers too~

By the way, let me say one thing: I'm not going by what any textbook says, and I'm not a teacher, and I haven't been influenced by anyone. Everything is my own feeling. I admired Kangxi from a very early age. This kind of admiration is not admiration for his great achievements, but a feeling for him from the angle of human understanding and the inner heart. Just as Chen Daoming said, it's one man's admiration for another man, not admiration for a successful emperor. His complexity at that time was much stronger than in wartime. What is truly frightening is human nature, not war and not natural disasters either. Why was it that first-generation leaders like Mao were so united in wartime, yet once peacetime came they produced so many tricks? So peacetime shows a person's level even more. Heroes are easily produced in wartime, but in peacetime it is much harder. The people I have always admired most are those who govern the country, because what they face is all the people under heaven. If someone can handle relationships well with all the people under heaven, that is a very remarkable achievement.
Xiaolong, you're only eighteen, right? When I was about your age I was as hot-blooded as you. Patriotism is a good thing, but extreme patriotism is not. Politics is only a game played by politicians; they build their desires on the blood of ordinary people. We are ordinary people, so we should live our ordinary lives. Whether Japanese or Americans, what ordinary common people care about is always ordinary life and work. I think 90% of Japanese are not thinking about how to invade China, but about how to live. The ones shouting privately or publicly are often just some extreme Japanese. Between people, it is simply person to person; don't drag everything up to the level of two countries. At least in the computer world there are no borders. If one absolutely has to define one, then one can only say Microsoft counts as a kingdom, and what we need to do now is overthrow its hegemony.
Whether a great man or an ordinary person, in my eyes he is just a person. No matter what, a person's own interests are more or less always first. Don't argue. Wars are often decided by just a few people. A war may make one person, but it sacrifices countless others. When admiring someone, don't be dazzled by his halo, but understand his inner heart.

Sorry. Lately I keep failing to express myself clearly, offending people intentionally or unintentionally. I looked over the second half of this thread again. I feel that what I said in post #34 really was a bit "double-edged." And that was not what I originally meant. Please forgive me. What I wanted to say was nothing more than a negation of politics and history teachers, not a negation of yiyesong's remarks. On the contrary, yiyesong is the only moderator on this forum who has ever discussed with me the rise and fall of emperors through the ages. Although our views differ, I still have to admit that yiessong makes sense.

But judging from what the poster above said, I think your thinking is ten thousand li away from Moderator yiyesong's. This is not to say that I am inferior to Moderator yiyesong, but to refer to the divergence in viewpoints.

People who hold your kind of view probably have more or less a bit of cosmopolitanism in them. They think everyone in the world is equal, hope for peace, and hate war. Actually, in high school I also very much agreed with this view. Later I even wrote an essay on universal humanism in a Chinese exam. Because the essay clearly attacked socialism, I was dragged to the political education office and criticized. At the time they said I was a typical anarchist. Thinking about it now, they were right. This really is a utopia.
The reason humanity has war, states, classes, exploitation and so on is all determined by human nature. That is, as Han Fei said, human nature is inherently evil. And only by obeying this objective law can people seek their own development. You can understand it this way: if common people were all angels, what would government be for?
So my view is that only through continual war, revolution, violence, conflict, and suffering can human beings liberate and develop themselves. Because only at such times can humanity bring out 100% of its ability, even beyond the ordinary. Top scientific technology is also only born at such times. Things like the atomic bomb, cloning humans, and so on. A peaceful world and prosperous age are only temporary. After that come long years of weapons and garrisons. This is the true age of human evolution. The inferior perish, the superior survive. In this way the human world carries out broad new metabolism.
Based on these points, what I want to say is that patriotism must be bloody, must be violent, must be extreme. Because human nature determines it, if you seek your own country's strength, you must plot for other countries' weakness; if you seek your own country's wealth, you must aim for other countries' poverty; if you seek your own country's survival, you must make other countries perish. This is the real social science. It is Darwin's classic theory manifested at the level of the state. Any outstanding figure later generations can call great is a successful practitioner of this theory. Napoleon, Hitler, Temujin, Timur, Peter, Bismarck, Ying Zheng, Alexander, Caesar, Octavian, Li Shimin, Mao Zedong, and the rest—their footsteps are enough to explain everything. Aren't they?

So if all 1.4 billion people in China thought the way you do, we would face the same national-collapse crisis as at the start of the twentieth century. "Do not talk politics" would also only repeat the old path of the late Qing's "queue-haired swine." Do you know why America is so powerful? Aside from economic factors, there is another more important point. That is their politics of the whole people, politics in which the whole people participate. It means every citizen can play this high-level game. It means every citizen knows his own weight in this country. It means every citizen feels that the rise and fall of the country is closely tied to himself. You only need to look at the unity of Americans after 9/11 to know this.

One more thing: how did you calculate that I'm only 18?(Strange?)

As I wrote and wrote, it turned into another long piece. Sorry about that. Whenever this kind of topic comes up, I always feel there's no end to what I want to say.
yiyesong's view is right. And I think my view isn't bad either. What do you all think?

Hehe, when everyone has different opinions, it's enough just to respect each other. There's no who's right and who's wrong..

People are not the same.

How are they not the same??

A woman's view. Hardly worth mentioning.