China DOS Union

Originally posted by wl00560 at 2009-3-8 04:00:
CMD content should be allowed here...

It's impossible to want "peaceful evolution". At least during my tenure as administrator.

Originally posted by DOSroot at 2009-3-11 01:11 PM:

Wanting "peaceful evolution" is an impossible thing, at least during my term as administrator.

Highly support the administrator's work!

Metaphysical arguments are just water-splashing fights with no practical significance. We should speak with facts. Currently, this forum has 11 technical sections. We don't judge heroes by the number of posts because posts include replying to threads, and many replies are just filling. So we can roughly determine the importance and attention degree of a section by the number of topics. I roughly counted the top three sections in terms of the number of topics as follows:

Batch Processing Room: 12098

Answer Room: 6265

Boot Disk Room: 4887

The remaining sections with relatively more topics are the Teaching Room (4174) and the Comprehensive Discussion Area (3307), and the others are negligible. Those who know the history of the DOS Union forum should all know that the Batch Processing Room was split off from the Answer Room. Many posts in the Batch Processing Room were transferred from the Answer Room. Its first place is truly coming from behind. Why? Because the most popular and promising use related to DOS is batch processing and scripting technologies. And most of the batch processing and scripts discussed in the Batch Processing Room basically belong to the CMD category. I think there are not too many people using pure DOS batch processing now. Even if it has a wide range of uses, it's just some low-level applications. The only person I know who can develop a complex program with pure DOS batch processing is Bart (for his DOS boot disk series, that is, modboot). So, actually, DOS is on the decline. At present, it is mainly applied in some specialized fields. And on PCs, I guess most people use it to run GHOST or disk maintenance-related software (such as partitioning, disk repair, etc.).

In my opinion, having too detailed a division in a forum is not absolutely a good thing. We need to figure out the purpose of setting up the forum. To put it simply, if you just do software development and release, you don't need a forum; a web page is enough. The forum is mainly a place for people to participate in discussions. So all rules should serve this main premise, facilitating people to participate in discussions and further solve practical problems. This is the fundamental purpose of setting up the forum. And too detailed classification goes against this basic purpose because too detailed a division may make novices feel at a loss. Overly professional classifications may either lead novices to post randomly or make them不敢 post. This is not good for both users and the forum.

A good discussion atmosphere in a forum is gradually nurtured, not squeezed out by both detailed section division and strong rules. A good atmosphere needs to be gradually cultivated by enthusiastic experts guiding and expanding it. In this regard, the best moderator of the DOS Union is Willsort. Of course, Wengier is also good. In my opinion, the most meaningful section of the DOS Union is the Answer Room (and this has been proven by facts). The discussion atmosphere here is the most active because it belongs to the comprehensive section of the forum (actually, the Teaching Room is also a comprehensive section in terms of function, and there is no point in separating them). For example, I basically only hang out in the Answer Room and have been doing so for many years, so I can be said to be very familiar with the Answer Room. Why is it the most active? Because it has the fewest rules and the widest range of applications. In fact, it was not wise to split the Batch Processing Room from the Answer Room; it should be a sub-section under the Answer Room. And the most discussions related to DOS are about batch processing (whether DOS or CMD). The reason I say CMD and DOS are in the same line is that in terms of batch processing application, essentially it's still command line. From the perspective of command line, I really can't see the essential difference between DOS and CMD.

Of course, DOSroot has been emphasizing that it's wrong to take a utilitarian attitude towards DOS. Under his guidance, everyone also thinks utilitarianism is wrong. In my opinion, his argument itself is wrong. In my opinion, only utilitarianism is the most basic driving force for the progress of the world. A thing that is not practical has no need to be created. This is called闭门造车. Those who engage in DOS with your ideal will definitely create useless DOS. For example, the reason I came to the DOS Union forum was not to learn DOS itself. I came here to solve practical problems at work (writing batch processing with CMD) and have stayed here ever since. In my utilitarian view, both DOS and CMD are just tools to facilitate work. Everything I do is ultimately for my work (not entirely out of interest). Of course, to learn DOS well, we must figure out the differences and connections between DOS and CMD, recognize their respective advantages and disadvantages, and in solving specific problems, we should make up for each other's deficiencies. Use DOS when it's appropriate, use CMD when it's appropriate (actually, use Unix Shell when it's appropriate, and by extension, use whatever is appropriate). Everything depends on your specific application. It's wrong not to distinguish between DOS and CMD, which shows a lack of basic knowledge. But it's even more wrong to forcibly distinguish between DOS and CMD, which shows a problem with your world view (mechanical and dogmatic, which are probably not compliments). Although a man should have what he won't do and what he must do, that's a matter of principles in life. Doing this in technology obviously just shows simple logic.

A good forum, first of all, should have a good discussion topic (this is called pragmatism). For the China DOS Union, this topic is batch processing (or command lines related to DOS and CMD). The second issue is to find a good forum moderator to host the forum. The reason why the Batch Processing Room is so prosperous now is inseparable from the technical level and enthusiasm of the previous Willsort and the current several moderators.

However, the Reasoning Room is so deserted now, not because the topic of the Reasoning Room is not good (in fact, I think everything related to DOS, CMD and command lines can be discussed here). The main responsibility lies in the fact that the moderator is not doing his job in his position. I haven't seen the current two moderators come here to host the forum for a long time. Especially that gmy, who has a big reputation and background (or may be very skilled, but who knows?), I rarely see him post here, let alone answer others' questions or host the forum. He is basically just a businessman now, not a technical person. To put it bluntly, having a moderator is equivalent to having no moderator. My opinion is that it is better to leave it empty than to let someone who holds the position but does nothing occupy it. I say this not because I want to be a moderator. I don't have the qualifications, time and energy to be a moderator. I just have a deep affection for the Reasoning Room because I often hang out there. It makes me unhappy that it is so deserted now. I really miss the days when Willsort was here!

What is useful has vitality; what is widely concerned and accepted has stronger vitality. Technology should serve practical needs, not be done for the sake of technology itself.

The Batch Processing Room seems much quieter than before. A large number of friends with very good technical levels have successively left or faded out. Some have their own batch processing forums, and some have developed in other batch processing forums. I really don't know the exact reason (sometimes I also make some groundless guesses. Among them, some people may be because their development goals for batch processing are inconsistent with or even vastly different from those of the administrators). I just started to get in touch with batch processing in 2007 and didn't catch up with the strong technical discussion atmosphere at the beginning. It's really a pity.

The administrator wants to vigorously develop DOS, which is correct and quite good. After all, this is the China DOS Union, not the Batch Processing Union. But I think this goal should not be achieved by restricting the development of sections like the Batch Processing Room. My idea is very simple. If 1000 people visit the Batch Processing Room every day, some of these people will always like DOS, just like our Hebei fellow countryman Brother Climbing; if the Batch Processing Room is closed, the page view of CN-DOS will definitely be affected. What good is this for the development of DOS?

Maybe my way of thinking is too simple to be as far-sighted as the administrator. It's just my personal opinion, which may be laughed at by the experts.

Originally posted by Climbing at 2009-3-3 02:16 AM:
Windows NT is indeed not DOS, but its CMD window is indeed an extension of DOS.

Just as this forum is called the DOS Union Forum, but there are still many sections unrelated to DOS. Knowledge is systematic and organized, not...

Supporting posts that use DOS batch processing to solve problems are also deleted?
That's unreasonable...
I thought something was wrong that day
Hey, now I understand....
Greatness comes from tolerance....
有容乃大....

Some things may be better to communicate more. For example, forum administrators restrain other management personnel, and management personnel restrain ordinary members.

Administrators do not need to do everything by themselves, and do not need to inquire about every trivial matter. They should leave it to forum moderators and other management personnel to handle.

Originally posted by Climbing at 2009-3-12 02:20:
Of course, DOSroot has always emphasized that having a utilitarian attitude towards DOS is wrong. Under the guidance of his argument, everyone also mistakenly thinks that utilitarianism is wrong. In my opinion, his argument itself is wrong. In my view, only utilitarianism is the most basic driving force for the progress of the world. A thing that is not practical has no need to be created; this is called闭门造车 (building a cart behind closed doors). People who engage in DOS with your kind of idealism will definitely create a useless DOS. For example, the reason I came to the DOS Union forum in the first place was not to learn DOS itself, but to solve practical problems at work (using CMD to write batch scripts) that brought me here and kept me here. From my utilitarian perspective, both DOS and CMD are just tools to facilitate work. Everything I do is ultimately for my work (not purely out of interest). Of course, to learn DOS well, we must understand the differences and connections between DOS and CMD, recognize their respective advantages and disadvantages, and in solving specific problems, we should make up for what is lacking and use what is appropriate. Use DOS when you should, use CMD when you should (actually, use Unix Shell when you should, and by extension, use whatever you should), all depending on your specific application. It's wrong to not distinguish between DOS and CMD, which shows a lack of basic knowledge, but it's even more wrong to forcefully distinguish between DOS and CMD, which shows a problem with your world view (mechanical and dogmatic, which are probably not compliments). Although a man should do what he should and not do what he shouldn't, that's a matter of principles in life. Doing this in technology obviously just shows that your logic is simple.

I have the same feeling. I also came to this forum due to work reasons. I improve myself by solving practical problems.

I feel very strange. LZ, in my opinion, CMD is a simplified version of the original DOS system, nothing more than tools. I very much agree with the person above. Can't we ask questions about CMD here?

[ Last edited by creda on 2009-4-14 at 23:30 ]

In fact, the biggest difference is that DOS is an independent operating system! CMD cannot operate independently without its own operating platform! It cannot be used alone! (Maybe I haven't found the method.)

Distinguishing is also fine! There are many commands and variables that CMD can use but cannot be used in DOS! The issues of the DOS environment method are all answered in the concept of CMD, which wastes the time of experts!

Climbing's remarks led the issue in another direction, which is the conflict between pragmatism and idealism.

As far as I know, this forum, including its parent CN-DOS Union and some early affiliated main stations (New DOS Era, Starting DOS, etc.), was founded and managed by some idealists. However, after long-term development and evolution, some pragmatists who intruded halfway and some pragmatists who transformed from idealists diluted the original atmosphere of the forum and developed it into what it is now. Therefore, at this time and place, discussing who is right or wrong is not of much significance, and criticizing the other party's outlook on life is indeed going too far.

As for the management method of the forum, my suggestion is to introduce a relatively closed mechanism. For example, separate a section where only members with certain qualifications (such as veteran members or members invited by managers) are allowed to discuss (reading can not be restricted). In this way, like attracts like and people get together with their own kind, which is more convenient for management.

As for the debate between DOS and CMD, CLI and GUI, I will not participate. My idea is to learn Premier Zhou's diplomatic strategy, seek common ground while reserving differences, and adhere to several basic principles without wavering.

Of course, the final decision is still up to the actual maintainers of the forum. Just as DOSroot said, as long as he is still the manager, the management will of the forum is dominated by him. Those who are sincerely convinced can gather around, those who are not in harmony can move to other places, and those who are hesitant can argue their points. As an onlooker, I just hope that the situation will change in the direction I hope.

That's too hasty!

Haven't been here for a long time, really didn't read the sticky post, and was deleted immediately.

Annoyed!

Originally posted by Climbing at 2009-3-12 02:32 AM:
A good forum, first of all, should have a good discussion topic (this is called pragmatism). For the China DOS Union, this topic is batch processing (or command lines related to DOS and CMD). The second ...

Speaks my mind!

The moderator has no service consciousness, but rather seems like an executioner waiting with a knife to kill people.

Isn't this driving people away?

Originally posted by DOSroot at 2009-3-1 12:54 AM:
Starting today, all topics and replies in the DOS section that are not related to DOS issues will be directly deleted without being transferred or prompted, and they will be deleted after deduction of points!

What kind of regulation is this?!

Your section is so deserted. If you think it's in the wrong place, you can transfer the post. This is originally the responsibility of the forum administrator. You have nothing to do, but just delete posts and deduct points. What are you doing?