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blue777
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积分 452
发帖 134
注册 2004-6-16
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『第 136 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
软盘加载ieldr是可以的,但一启动(hdd0,0)的iso,就会出现"第134楼"的录象2中自动重启的错误.
顺便问下,你贴图用的软件是什么?不要扔鸡蛋砸我啊<img src="images/smilies/face-laugh.png" align="absmiddle" border="0">我从未贴过图!
It is okay to load ieldr on a floppy disk, but when booting the ISO of (hdd0,0), an error of automatic restarting as in the video 2 of "Post 134" will occur.
By the way, what software do you use to post pictures? Don't throw eggs at me : ) I've never posted pictures before!
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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hnlyzhd
高级用户
   
积分 544
发帖 164
注册 2004-10-17
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『第 137 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
我看了你的录像,有一个已经启动了ISO文件,那个LOADING STAGE2说明已经启动了ISO文件,可能是ISOGRUB在虚拟上有问题,时刻表 更换一个ISO进行测试,建议这个IMG用MEMDISK来调用
I watched your video. There is one that has started the ISO file. That "LOADING STAGE2" indicates that the ISO file has been started. It might be that ISOGRUB has issues in the virtual environment. It is suggested to replace an ISO for testing. It is recommended to use MEMDISK to call this IMG.
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我的留言簿
http://hnlyzhd.ys168.com 我的网络盘
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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blue777
中级用户
  
积分 452
发帖 134
注册 2004-6-16
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『第 138 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
但为何从安装到硬盘上的grub的menu.lst上通过调用ieldr,可以正确启动iso呢?还有ieldr对可引导的iso文件也很挑剔呢!你有时间自己测试就知道了.我测试用的grub.iso就是包含在最新版ieldr压缩包里提供的.我换了几个其它可引导的iso都不能启动.
But why can the grub on the hard disk installation's menu.lst correctly boot the iso by calling ieldr? Also, ieldr is quite picky about bootable iso files! You'll know if you test it yourself. The grub.iso I used for testing is the one included in the latest version of the ieldr compressed package. I changed to several other bootable isos and none could boot.
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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hnlyzhd
高级用户
   
积分 544
发帖 164
注册 2004-10-17
状态 离线
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『第 139 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
这个呀,我没说明,有点怪我了,它可以引导EZB生成的多重启动光盘的ISO,但是它只能引导虚拟模式的ISO,非虚拟的如何XP或PE等的ISO是不能引导的.
Well, I didn't explain this clearly, which is my fault. It can guide the ISO of the multi - boot CD generated by EZB, but it can only guide the ISO in virtual mode. The ISO of non - virtual ones such as XP or PE cannot be guided.
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我的留言簿
http://hnlyzhd.ys168.com 我的网络盘
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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blue777
中级用户
  
积分 452
发帖 134
注册 2004-6-16
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『第 140 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
哦!知道了,如此说来白忙了一场.现在ieldr太不成熟,我对其兴趣立刻没有了.期待不点兄早日出新版的grub for dos.
Oh! Got it, so it means I've been busy for nothing. Now that ieldr is too immature, my interest in it is immediately gone. Looking forward to Brother Budian releasing a new version of grub for dos as soon as possible.
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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hnlyzhd
高级用户
   
积分 544
发帖 164
注册 2004-10-17
状态 离线
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『第 141 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
嘿嘿,你也太不知足了吧,试问你还能找到比这更好的方法来启动ISO吗,或者说你什么时候弄出个GRUB里面有RUN XXXX.ISO功能,我第一个为你祝贺.
还有我用的贴图工具传在这里你下载吧. 打开附件
Hehe, you are too ungrateful, may I ask if you can find a better way to boot ISO, or when you come up with a function in GRUB that has RUN XXXX.ISO, I will be the first to congratulate you.
Also, the image tool I used is uploaded here for you to download. Open the attachment
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我的留言簿
http://hnlyzhd.ys168.com 我的网络盘
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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不点
银牌会员
     不甘寂寞的人
积分 2491
发帖 1115
注册 2003-9-24
状态 离线
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『第 142 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
任何技术都有其局限性,有些是我们可以摆脱的,有些是不幸无法摆脱的,这就只有忍受了。我没有精力来做 ISO 模拟,而且,即使去做了,也会碰到和Gandalf所碰到的同样的问题。有关这个技术的讨论,很久以前我们就讨论过了。我看到这个问题很复杂,所以,决定不再染指。更激进一点,就说我本人,我期待着早日将CDROM 淘汰出局,免得它给我们这些技术的追随者带来太多的痛苦。我并且希望,正在发展之中的 USB 技术,千万别走 CDROM的老路,千万别再制定出类似 CDROM 这样的规范,要像硬盘那样,直接从 BIOS 这一底层,直接支持 USB 扇区读写,这样,我们就不会像CDROM 一样受微软的控制。那些 CDROM 之所以不能简单地像磁盘这样来仿真,其根本的原因是 CDROM 没有像 int13这样的读写标准,因此造成了这样一个局面,就是在 DOS 下需要一个所谓的驱动才可以访问 CDROM 的扇区。这是微软直接参与 CDROM标准制定,故意造下的孽种。它的目的是提高 DOS 的地位,贬低 BIOS 的作用。好了,不再说了,这个帖子下面,主要是谈 grub fordos 的“内存磁盘”仿真功能的,不要谈太多别的东西。有兴趣想了解的朋友,可以到 http://grub.linuxeden.com/去,看看 grub_for_dos-0.3.0 的开发页,该页目前处于停顿状态,但也许我将来有工夫的话,会继续搞的。
Any technology has its limitations. Some we can get rid of, some unfortunately we can't, and then we just have to endure. I don't have the energy to do ISO emulation, and even if I did, I'd run into the same problems Gandalf ran into. We've discussed this technology a long time ago. I see this problem is complicated, so I've decided not to get involved. More radically, as for myself, I look forward to phasing out CDROM as soon as possible to save our followers of this technology from too much pain. I also hope that the developing USB technology won't follow in CDROM's old path, won't make similar specs like CDROM, but directly support USB sector reading and writing from the BIOS bottom layer like hard disks, so we won't be controlled by Microsoft like CDROM. The fundamental reason why CDROM can't be simply emulated like disks is that CDROM doesn't have a reading and writing standard like int13, thus creating a situation where a so-called driver is needed under DOS to access CDROM sectors. This is a孽种deliberately created by Microsoft's direct participation in CDROM standard making. Its purpose is to enhance DOS's status and belittle BIOS's role. Okay, enough. Below this post is mainly about grub for dos's "memory disk" emulation function, don't talk too much about other things. Friends interested to know can go to http://grub.linuxeden.com/ to see the development page of grub_for_dos-0.3.0. This page is in a stagnant state now, but maybe I'll continue to work on it if I have time in the future.
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因为我们亲手创建,这个世界更加美丽。 |
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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Esme
初级用户
 
积分 170
发帖 35
注册 2005-2-24
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『第 143 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
可是blue777,你说在硬盘下可以通过grldr加载ieldr后启动iso,意思是说启动xp安装盘的iso吗?我觉得这也不可能啊
另外向你请教,ntfs4dos我下了,我用普通的软盘启动电脑后运行它,logo也显示了,但在选择是否私人用处无论选yes还是no,都没什么发生,还是无法进入ntfs盘,察看内存也发现它并没有驻入内存
But blue777, you said that you can load ieldr via grldr under the hard disk to boot the ISO, does that mean booting the ISO of the XP installation disc? I think that's impossible too.
Also, I have a question for you. I downloaded ntfs4dos. I booted the computer with a normal floppy disk and ran it. The logo was displayed, but no matter whether I selected yes or no when choosing whether for personal use, nothing happened, and I still couldn't enter the NTFS partition. I also found that it didn't reside in memory when checking the memory.
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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Gandalf
中级用户
   CPU
积分 362
发帖 96
注册 2004-7-8 来自 北京
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『第 144 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
在我个人看来, USB 的访问现在还很麻烦,而且即便是在 Windows 平台上也有一些支绌的感觉。 你看,微软官方的说法就是,当前版本的 Windows 不支持从 USB storage 上启动,尽管,我们可以从 U 盘上用某些特殊的方法实现启动 Win9x/WinNT/WinXP. - 我的出发点是,让 Grub 拥有一个类似与 Scdrom 里的设备驱动那样。 如果是这样,我觉得,不点的 Grub4Lin 也许大有用途。 比如说,在一个 mini-Linux 上加载 USB, cdrom, Net 等驱动,以访问众多的存储介质,然后使用 Ramdisk 的方法, 由这个 mini-Linux 再转到其他的系统上去(随着 PC 硬件的发展,大内存必然会出现在个人电脑中。 ;) ); 再者,诸位可以审核一下 Acronis 的产品,它就是在 Linux Kernel 2.4 上用 fbcon 做的,很漂亮也很强健的 GUI,令人叫绝啊!---------- 此外, × 我看了帖子,发现 不点 病倒了。 “身体是革命的本钱”,要爱惜身体呀! × 诸位提到的 ieldr 的问题,可能存在,也可能不存在。 ;)
In my personal opinion, the access to USB is still quite troublesome right now, and even on the Windows platform, there is a somewhat awkward feeling. You see, Microsoft's official statement is that the current version of Windows does not support booting from USB storage. Although, we can use some special methods to boot Win9x/WinNT/WinXP from a USB flash drive. - My starting point is to make Grub have a device driver similar to that in the Scdrom. If that's the case, I think Grub4Lin by Budian might be of great use. For example, load USB, cdrom, Net and other drivers on a mini-Linux to access numerous storage media, and then use the Ramdisk method to switch from this mini-Linux to other systems (with the development of PC hardware, large memory will surely appear in personal computers. ;)) ; Moreover, you can review Acronis' products. It is made with fbcon on Linux Kernel 2.4, and has a very beautiful and robust GUI, which is amazing! ---------- In addition, × I read the post and found that Budian is ill. "Health is the foundation of revolution", take good care of your health! × The problem with ieldr mentioned by everyone may exist or may not exist. ;)
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f22_storm@163.com
http://sysoft.zdwx.com/
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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不点
银牌会员
     不甘寂寞的人
积分 2491
发帖 1115
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『第 145 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
Gandalf:
前面我漏掉一句话,就是说,你做的中文补丁,即便没有国际化的功能,也可以放在 grub for dos中一起发布。前面我也了解到,说你想不再投入巨大力量来开发了,你可能另有工作任务。如果有你的补丁,那么中文用户比较欢迎。这样我可以把编译的程序分成两部分,一部分是没有中文支持的纯英文版本,一部分是有中文支持的版本。另外现在身体已经好了,谢谢你的关心啊。
刚才你谈到的问题,我也想说点看法。
我觉得和你的观点稍微有些不同。首先,究竟应该怎么看待实模式?这是 Intel CPU 进化到 286 之后,才出现的问题,以前全部都是实模式,没有保护模式。因此,BIOS 都是按照实模式的套路去设计的,并且这也已经形成工业标准,不能随便更改了。
磁盘介质,光盘介质,USB 介质等等这类,都属于“块设备”,它们都是按扇区来访问的,有着统一性。因此 BIOS直接支持它们,是很容易的,这也是 BIOS 份内的事情,责无旁贷。保护模式的操作系统,固然有一套全新的处理,完全甩开BIOS,但是,实模式的系统却很小巧玲珑,这些系统当然喜欢使用 BIOS 了,利用了BIOS,这些实模式操作系统就不需要再重复编写这些驱动了,有着“节约”的美德。一张软盘就能装的系统,谁不喜欢呢?尽管微软竭力想阻止用户继续接触DOS,但是,它却制止不了,这不是以它微软的意志为转移的。人们还是要努力研究操作系统的精髓,不会上它微软的当。微软把操作系统故意搞成海量的、庞然大物,其目的,就是要制造屏障,让其它人不再能够容易地接触到操作系统的核心。举一个很简单的例子,NTFS 系统的引导代码,总共只有 7个扇区,却没人能把它的结构说清楚,到目前为至,还没有一个人能给出明晰的、完整的注释。如此一来,我们连 NT是如何启动的,都不甚清楚,更别奢谈对它的深层能有所了解了。--------呵呵,这离题太远了,不说了。总之,实模式仍然是我们离不开的,它是现代保护模式操作系统的“引子”,任何操作系统都经由它来引导进入。GRUB 就是在实模式之下发挥它的威力。
你说:“我的出发点是,让 Grub 拥有一个类似与 Scdrom 里的设备驱动那样。”我也同意,但也有不同观点。设备驱动这些,属于操作系统管辖范围,或者属于 BIOS 的。尽管 GRUB有很多驱动,比如网卡,但是,这都是迫不得已,因为大多数 BIOS 没有这些驱动。像 CDROM 这些存贮介质,是不应当由 GRUB去驱动它的。我们宝贵的 640KB 常规内存,如果给 CDROM 驱动程序占去若干个KB,这也是一个不小的损失啊。如果再加上其它驱动,那损失就更大了,而且,驱动多了,还会互相冲突,造成死机等等难以找到原因的各种问题。GRUB所具有的另一种驱动是“文件系统驱动”,它要识别很多文件系统,因而它得具有这些驱动,这不能去掉,因为去掉它就不行了。但是另一方面,如果 GRUB能将 CDROM 完全驱动,那也确实算是一件大好的事情,因为这可以部分地弥补 CDROM 和 BIOS 所固有的不足。然而,目前的SCDROM 模块,连 win98 的安装光盘都不能启动,因此,路还长着呢。我认为,scdrom要想最终获得大家的认可,必须支持各种仿真:no-emulation, floppy-emulation 和harddisk-emulation都要支持了才行啊,而且,技术上讲,确实也可以做到这一点。任何缺陷都是大家所不能接受的,所以,如果有人报怨,那是可以理解的,而且,我这么认为:报怨者其实也是你的信任者,他对你的技术有着基本的肯定,才去报怨,如果他全盘否定了你的技术,那他就没必要报怨了,他直接走了就完事了。
对不起,我平时没这么多废话,今天怎么这么多的废话。
grub4lin 可以在 linux 下启动实模式的 GRUB。这就使得 LINUX 可以作为一个大的引导管理器来用。和 DOS不同,LINUX 处于保护模式。因此 grub4lin确实解决了一个不小的问题。不过,用大内存进入其它操作系统,恐怕未必总是可能的。我们已经知道 DOS 和 Win98是可以这么做了,但是,微软的NT/2000/XP/LH/........等等等等,肯定都不行了,因为微软会阻止人们这样做的,它决不愿意看到它的操作系统被人用内存盘来运行,因为这样一来,操作系统无法记录该系统被运行了多少次,它无法知道,什么时候其 license 该终止,它也无法收集用户的真实信息。
你提到的 Acronis,我还没有听说过,不过我真的希望,linux 能够迅速崛起,达到和微软抗衡的程度,那就太好了。
Gandalf:
I missed a sentence earlier, that is, even if the Chinese patch you made doesn't have internationalization functions, it can be released together with grub for dos. I also learned earlier that you don't want to invest a huge amount of effort in development anymore, maybe you have other work tasks. If there is your patch, then Chinese users will welcome it. In this way, I can divide the compiled programs into two parts, one part is the pure English version without Chinese support, and the other part is the version with Chinese support. Now my body is already well, thank you for your concern.
I also want to say something about the problem you just talked about.
I think it's a little different from your view. First of all, how should we view real mode? This is a problem that occurs after the Intel CPU evolves to 286. Before that, it was all real mode, and there was no protected mode. Therefore, the BIOS is designed according to the routine of real mode, and this has become an industrial standard, which cannot be changed casually.
Disk media, optical disc media, USB media, etc. all belong to "block devices", which are all accessed by sectors and have unity. Therefore, the BIOS directly supports them, which is very easy, and this is also the duty of the BIOS. The operating system in protected mode, of course, has a set of brand-new processing, completely getting rid of the BIOS. However, the system in real mode is very compact. Of course, these systems like to use the BIOS. By using the BIOS, these real mode operating systems do not need to repeatedly write these drivers, which has the virtue of "saving". Who doesn't like a system that can be installed on a floppy disk? Although Microsoft tries its best to prevent users from continuing to contact DOS, it can't stop it. This is not subject to the will of Microsoft. People still have to work hard to study the essence of the operating system and will not be tricked by it. Microsoft deliberately makes the operating system huge and cumbersome, the purpose is to create a barrier so that others can no longer easily access the core of the operating system. Take a very simple example, the boot code of the NTFS system has only 7 sectors, but no one can explain its structure clearly. So far, no one has been able to give a clear and complete comment. In this way, we don't even know how NT starts, let alone have a deep understanding of it. --------- Hee hee, this is off topic, let's not talk about it. In short, real mode is still something we can't do without. It is the "introduction" of the modern protected mode operating system. Any operating system enters through it. GRUB exerts its power under real mode.
You said: "My starting point is to make Grub have a device driver similar to that in Scdrom." I also agree, but I also have different views. Device drivers and so on belong to the jurisdiction of the operating system or the BIOS. Although GRUB has many drivers, such as network cards, but this is a last resort, because most BIOSes do not have these drivers. Storage media such as CDROM should not be driven by GRUB. Our precious 640KB conventional memory, if occupied by CDROM driver programs for several KB, is also a不小 loss. If other drivers are added, the loss will be even greater, and if there are more drivers, there will be conflicts with each other, causing various problems such as死机that are difficult to find the cause. Another type of driver that GRUB has is "file system driver", which needs to identify many file systems, so it needs to have these drivers, which cannot be removed because it will not work if removed. But on the other hand, if GRUB can fully drive CDROM, it is indeed a great thing, because this can partially make up for the inherent deficiencies of CDROM and BIOS. However, the current SCDROM module cannot even boot the installation CD of win98, so the road is still long. I think that for scdrom to be finally recognized by everyone, it must support various emulations: no-emulation, floppy-emulation and harddisk-emulation all need to be supported, and technically, it can indeed be done. Any defects are unacceptable to everyone, so if someone complains, it is understandable, and I think so: the complainer is actually also your truster, he has a basic affirmation of your technology before complaining. If he completely negates your technology, then he doesn't need to complain, he just leaves.
I'm sorry, I don't have so much nonsense usually, why do I have so much nonsense today.
grub4lin can start the real mode GRUB under linux. This makes LINUX can be used as a large boot manager. Different from DOS, LINUX is in protected mode. Therefore, grub4lin has indeed solved a not small problem. However, it may not always be possible to enter other operating systems with large memory. We already know that DOS and Win98 can do this, but Microsoft's NT/2000/XP/LH/........ and so on, must not be possible, because Microsoft will prevent people from doing this, it is absolutely unwilling to see its operating system run with a memory disk, because in this way, the operating system cannot record how many times the system has been run, it cannot know when its license should expire, and it cannot collect the real information of users.
I haven't heard of Acronis you mentioned, but I really hope that linux can rise rapidly and reach the level of competing with Microsoft, that would be great.
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因为我们亲手创建,这个世界更加美丽。 |
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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blue777
中级用户
  
积分 452
发帖 134
注册 2004-6-16
状态 离线
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2005-3-25 00:00 |
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pierrexqw
初级用户
 
积分 121
发帖 10
注册 2004-11-19
状态 离线
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『第 147 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
呵,在01年的时候就开始用acronis的OS Selector,那个时候还叫bootwizard呢,是和PTS-DOS从同一个实验室出来的~~GUI那个华丽啊~~~但是光盘启动它一直没有解决。可能作为一个商业软件,它需要更稳定吧。
Hehe, I started using Acronis OS Selector back in 2001, and it was called BootWizard back then. It came out of the same lab as PTS-DOS~~The GUI was so fancy~~~But it never solved the CD boot issue. Maybe as a commercial software, it needs to be more stable.
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2005-3-28 00:00 |
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Esme
初级用户
 
积分 170
发帖 35
注册 2005-2-24
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『第 148 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
to hnlyzhd:grldr已经可以用普通的软盘img虚拟硬盘分区,其原理是为img写个假的硬盘分区表和MBR,不知道你是否可以参照这个方法,使ieldr让普通的软盘iso或者软盘img,当作光盘iso引导?
To hnlyzhd: The grldr can already use a common floppy disk img to virtualize a hard disk partition. The principle is to write a fake hard disk partition table and MBR for the img. I wonder if you can refer to this method to make ieldr boot a common floppy disk iso or floppy disk img as a CD - ROM iso?
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2005-3-29 00:00 |
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windrv
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『第 149 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
以下是引用不点在2005-3-24 13:00:12的发言:
windrv:
是吗?grldr 能被用于 non-emulation mode ? 你是如何做到的呢?那一定要和大家分享啊!这么说来,stage2_eltorito 就可以不要了,是吗?
Dear Tinybit,
According to Bean, he added your Grub4DOS patches into GNU GRUB and did recompilation, such patches will appear in stage2_eltorito. So stage2_eltorito in fact includes grldr .
The following is a quote from Budian at 13:00:12 on March 24, 2005:
windrv:
Is that so? Can grldr be used in non-emulation mode? How did you do it? You must share it with everyone! So, does that mean stage2_eltorito can be dispensed with?
Dear Tinybit,
According to Bean, he added your Grub4DOS patches into GNU GRUB and did recompilation, such patches will appear in stage2_eltorito. So stage2_eltorito in fact includes grldr .
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2005-3-29 00:00 |
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Gandalf
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『第 150 楼』:
使用 LLM 解释/回答一下
一个想法: Linux 的内核载入用到了内存实时解压缩,他用的是 gzip 的代码。 我看了看,压缩率几乎能达到 50%;那如果将 grldrstart.S 的生成代码也进行压缩,如果考虑 8 个扇区的限制,那么我们实际可以使用的扇区在使用了压缩方式后可以达到 16 个扇区。 grldr.hdr 的功能将会得到极大的扩展。 当然,我们也许需要考虑解压缩代码 grldr_decompress() 的大小,和实际的压缩率。 但,无论如何,我们肯定可以得到 > 12 个扇区的功能代码。 Mr. tinybit 这个不知道对你更进 grldrstart.S 是否有帮助? 此外,如果,我们在对 grub 的 stage2 实施相同的做法,那么,着 150 KB 的代码就能在某种恰当的方式下被放置到 64kb 的 rom 中去,作为一个多起动环境,或者紧急修复 - 要知道,我们的 grub 支持网络启动来着。^_^.
An Idea: The Linux kernel loading uses real-time memory decompression, and it uses the gzip code. I took a look, and the compression ratio can almost reach 50%; then if the generated code of grldrstart.S is also compressed, considering the 8-sector limit, then the actual sectors we can use can reach 16 sectors after using the compression method. The function of grldr.hdr will be greatly expanded. Of course, we may need to consider the size of the decompression code grldr_decompress() and the actual compression ratio. But in any case, we can definitely get function code of more than 12 sectors. Mr. tinybit, I don't know if this is more helpful for grldrstart.S? In addition, if we implement the same approach for grub's stage2, then this 150 KB code can be placed into a 64kb ROM in a proper way, as a multi-boot environment, or emergency repair - you know, our grub supports network boot. ^_^.
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f22_storm@163.com
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2005-3-31 00:00 |
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